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It's Never as Simple as Just "For or Against"

if you’re at the polarity on a subject, you’re not helping to solve the issue.

I’ve always been suspect of neat little "ditties" that seek to dwindle complex issues down into simple answers — answers so simple that there always seems to be an implied “look how simple this is, why can’t you get it?” put down attached to it.

A friend of mine posted something on Facebook that really surprised me. It was a graphic that said “If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons make you fat.”

I posted back “If Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (of the Columbine massacre) only had a fork and a pencil, many people would be alive right now that are dead, and a lot less anguish would have been visited on the slaughtered victims' families.”  I was trying to make the point that it wasn’t as simple as that simple phrase was trying to make it out to be. He replied that he strongly disagreed with me and went on to explain why he was against gun control.

I could see that Facebook was the wrong forum to get my point across. My point wasn’t even about guns. My point was that the issue of guns in society and similarly complex issues couldn’t be summed up in one cute little phrase. A complex issue can’t be discussed with a bunch of one liners tossed back and forth. And Facebook is the least of our worries in this regard. Thanks to our media, all we seem to get these days are “one-liners." No real discussion, no depth, no real attempt at a solution.

This is why we have such a hard time making progress on complex social issues in our country. Every issue turns into an argument about the polarities. We don’t live in a world of “yes” or “no”, or “black” or “white”. We don’t live in a world of polarities. We live in a world of grays, and our national debates need to be grounded in this truth.

So to prove this point, I decided to try a theoretical experiment. I put a gun on a table and watched as many people walked by. No one got shot. I guess the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” side is right! A gun by itself doesn’t kill people. It must be that people kill people.

So I tried my experiment with a person instead of a gun. I put a person at the table and watched as many more people walked by. Again, no one died. So the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” side must be wrong! But that’s where the simplicity ends.

Next, I put a very angry person, or a person with issues, or maybe even a deranged person at the table and watched again. In the most extreme cases, this person actually got up and strangled a person or two, and then got tackled and stopped. Or maybe they had a pencil or a fork and stabbed several people and then they got tackled and subdued. (By the way, most of the people who were stabbed survived their wounds.)

One last variation of the experiment. I put a gun at the table with the angry/deranged person and things really started to get interesting. In most cases, nothing happened. But in some cases, lots of people died. And how many people died seemed to be in direct proportion to the type of gun I put on the table. Put a revolver at the table and six or so people died. Maybe one or two survived their wounds. Put a shotgun at the table with lots of ammo, and lots of people died. Few survived their wounds. Put a machine gun at the table and a whole lot of people died.

So what did I discover through my experiment?

1) Guns sitting by themselves don’t kill people.
2) People without guns have a very limited ability to kill people. Usually just one or two at a time. No mass killings. Few indiscriminate killings.
3) With a gun, any fool can kill lots of people, and they are very hard to stop until they run out of ammo. And the “bigger” the gun, the more damage they can cause until they can be stopped. You don’t see many “drive by clubbings”.

There will always be the Jack the Rippers and the Jeffery Dahmers in the world who will kill people. There’s no stopping that. But if these guys and those like them have guns, they will do more damage. It’s not about “guns for everyone” or “guns for none.” Let’s get away from those polarities and talk about the real world.

So I’m right back to my main point. You can’t, in one article, one presidential debate, one newscast, or one Facebook post solve the gun or any other complex social issue. My point was that if you’re at the polarity on a subject, you’re not being particularly realistic about that subject and therefore you’re not helping to solve the issue. You’re just trying to be "right," or make someone else "wrong." We need fewer people trying to be "right." We need more people really trying to solve issues that face our great nation — and that’s going to take compromise and reason.

My message here isn’t whether you should be for or against gun control. My message, as always, is that it’s rarely, if ever, as simple as “this vs. that.” We need to stop trying to distill the complex issues of our time into simple “yes” or “no” terms. It’s time to give our complex social issues the respect and deep thought they truly deserve. It’s time to figure out the grays.

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Mike Bragg February 28, 2012 at 10:54 am
This article should be offered to every high school and college in the land, and posted on Facebook every month or two. The polarization it addresses is killing the country. More surely than guns.
PJ February 28, 2012 at 11:24 am
Well said. Thank you. The world is not black or white but more a rainbow of colors in between. It's unfortunate that the politicians in this country are color blind or in denial about the existence of the rainbow and see or want the world to be black or white.
Lois Arsenault February 28, 2012 at 01:34 pm
"This vs that" is very reflective of the instant gratification (in this case, think "instant solution") so charactistic in many cultures of today. Reflection, discussion, compromise, consensus, and any other pursuits associated with informed resolution of any question or issue of import requires time. time; the precious comodity that not everybody is willing to spend on problem solving.
Jack Mierod February 28, 2012 at 01:49 pm
I udnerstand that your thesis is not limited to gun control, but you miss an important issue in your thought experiment. Virtually every gun owner I know would agree that we should have laws in place (like background checks) that are designed to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons and mentally unstable individuals. Unfortunately, that is not the goal of gun control advocates. They routinely advocate for laws that make it as difficult as possible for anyone -- no matter how law abiding or well trained-- to purchase, own and carry a firearm. They are against private ownership of firearms, period, yet they lie and claim to only be interested in "reasonable gun laws." That is why it is so difficult to have a rational debate on the issue.
Maria Giannuzzi February 28, 2012 at 02:52 pm
Lois, you are absolutely spot on. All these important pursuits do require time and sometimes a lot of time. We might have the time if we are willing to get rid of some of the useless distractions that clutter our lives and perhaps listen more and talk less. (I shall include myself in the listen more category.)
Sam Adlerstein February 28, 2012 at 03:52 pm
Thank you, Joel, for these wise words. When I've taken the time to really listen and talk on difficult issues, most often we discover that we agree on more than we disagree. Then, building on, the disagreements become constructive! A simple thing, yet hard to do. You have me asking myself, "How long is my "non negotiable no matter what" list... can I get it down to 10 things?
This article is a keeper!
K. Dahlquist February 28, 2012 at 05:52 pm
I'm afraid you lost my respect when you attempted to classify me, and others who share my beliefs, when you claimed "...(gun control advocates) are against private ownership of firearms, period, yet they lie and claim to be interested in reasonable gun laws." It sounds more like propaganda from the NRA rather than the reasoned position you expressed earlier in your piece. One can never know, and it is dangerous to ascribe the motivations of others. Some may indeed, be duplicitous liars, others may be seeking a middle ground between firearm ownership and the protection of the public from assault and other weapons which are designed, only, to kill human beings, as many and as quickly as possible. Where do such weapons belong in a peaceful, open democracy with secure protections from law enforcement in place?
Jim Martucci February 28, 2012 at 08:37 pm
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.
K. Dahlquist; please rethink your statement about, "secure protections from law enforcement."
Jim Martucci February 28, 2012 at 08:42 pm
www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html
Here is my source.
Spiff February 28, 2012 at 08:48 pm
While I realize that this is a complex issue, it has to be resolved within the boundaries of the U.S. Constitution. The Second Amendment to the U.S. Consititution's Bill of Rights reads: "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." The Supreme Court has gone on to further clarify that by ruling that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that weapon for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Moreover, this right applies not just to the federal government, but to states and municipalities as well.
Rich Stein February 29, 2012 at 08:55 pm
Jack,
Would you please give documentation to back up your claim gun control advocates "are against private ownership of firearms, period." I know of no gun control group that advocates against the private ownership of guns. But I do know that the NRA fights every attempt, be it at the state or federal level, to ensure that all gun sales have a criminal background check. Why is that?
Rich Stein February 29, 2012 at 08:57 pm
Spiff,
Don't forget that the Supreme Court also ruled that "like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."
R Eleveld February 29, 2012 at 10:46 pm
Joel, again your are to be applauded for writing a thoughtful piece. The middle ground is a wide area that reasoned people can use to reach a common and acceptable goal.
The problem is that both sides will continue to fight hard for the position they like for fear of allowing the camels nose into the tent. The reason some fight so hard on both sides is a small victory ratchets to further victories if the first victory is in the desired direction. In that argument you fight against the slightest change for an arguable good reason. For example: The Supreme Court in Griswold v. Connecticut struck down one of the remaining Comstock laws, that banned contraception in Connecticut. The reasoning and language of both Griswold and Eisenstadt(1972) were cited in support of the Court's result in Roe v. Wade (1973). I am not saying anything about Roe v Wade or privacy rights, just showing how a small decison moved to become a piece of landmark jurisprudence. The same applies in gun control laws. The fear, right or wrong, is a small change becomes a major change by slow long creep. That is in where the problem lies and both sides of an argument understand this creeping.
Frodo Baggins March 1, 2012 at 01:22 am
Ah...the wonderful middle, the place where one can plant one foot on each side. The comfortable place where the non-committed huddle together cooing meaningless Hallmark card emoto-generica, their castles built on quicksand. No, one would not expect trimmers to be concerned about babies' skulls being crushed in the event they were to survive late term abortions. What, mention partial birth abortion during my erudite exposition on the virtue of hiding in the tall grass of the middle ground and "creeping"? Have you no sense of decency? A middle ground muddler would find a way around that, as long as he didn't have to wield the knife and pincers, watch, stuff with bloodied fingers the baby's remains into a plastic bag and toss it in th trash. The simple, indisputable fact is that people kill people, their weapons of choice do not. The Second Amendment is not the only amendment to the U.S. Constitution or law which authorizes Americans to protect themeselves with the force of arms against deranged criminals or rogue government minions. Muddled, split-decision, and political distortions in the interpretation of law or our federalist system have no claim to legitimacy and set no estimable example. But, Mr. Eleveld, we are all sinners, we all err and we all need forgiveness. Pax et lux.
Jerry O'Connor March 1, 2012 at 02:26 am
Old Chinese proverb:
Confucius say, “Man walking middle of road gets hit by truck going either way.” “True Believers” in any cause always try to reduce the issues involved to an absurdly simple analogy that favors their extreme point of view. They make it simple, because they know that most people like things simple, even if they are simply wrong. Another technique that is routinely used to block intelligent, middle-ground legislation is the “slippery slope” argument. And both the “right” and “left” make extensive use of it. When any governmental agency tries to regulate the de facto infanticide that is elective late-term abortion, abortion rights activists quickly remind us that if the government is allowed to regulate abortion at all, then they will eventually move to take away a woman’s right to manage her own reproductive organs. The anti gun control activists claim that even legislation to outlaw assault weapons that have no use outside of the military and law enforcement can’t be tolerated because – that’s right – soon after the government would use this loophole to outlaw all guns and take away our constitutional right to bear arms. Truth is, the only real “slippery slope” is the one these fallacious arguments are based upon.
Maria Giannuzzi March 1, 2012 at 01:04 pm
Life doesn't always present us with the neat and simple scenarios that are espoused by those on the extremes, Frodo. In 1920 if a married woman with four young children at home was in hospital about to give birth and faced with a complication that could kill her, doctors routinely asked her husband to make a choice between the baby or his wife. The doctors would have to perform a late-term abortion to save the mother's life. They could save the baby, but his wife would die. They did not ask his wife what her wishes were. So, it seems the husband was placed in the middle. Either way he would lose. How does the story end? The husband chose his wife and his four small children waiting at home.
Maria Giannuzzi March 1, 2012 at 01:20 pm
I do not think the slippery slope argument can be justified in most instances. But it is very helpful to understand the historical context of some of women's fears regarding laws that interfere with their ability to make their own choices. Not so long ago, contraception was banned and a woman giving birth could die if her male husband and male doctors decided her life should be sacrified so that the baby she carried would survive. At present, we have mostly male-led attempts to make it more difficult for women to access contraception.
Tricia G. March 2, 2012 at 05:40 am
Maria, just who is trying to "make it more difficult for women to access contraception"? Contraceptives are readily available. People of conscience, and taxpayers in general, just don't want to be forced to pay for it for other people!
This is such a red herring argument, used by Obama and his enabling lamestream media, who are trying to distract from his record of FAILURE to improve the economy, unemployment etc. Are we to believe that you sympathize with the Georgetown law school student (where it costs some $35,000 or more to attend) who believes that students' promiscuous sex should be "protected" with the $$$ of the University--because these young women are going broke trying to afford contraception?
Maria Giannuzzi March 2, 2012 at 02:39 pm
As a person of conscience I agree with other people of conscience that a 17-year old mother with a 1-year-old child living in grinding poverty in Ethiopia or India should not be prevented from having access to contraception by a policy instituted by the male Roman Catholic Pope, cardinals and bishops and the mostly male leaders of some other churches, almost all of whom live in luxury. After all, they will not be dying or physically harmed (look up the word fistula online), their one-year old will not be left an orphan, their children will not be subject to malnutrition, childhood diseases, and lack of education. Pregnancy has health and societal consequences. In years past pregnant women used to die a lot and some still die. And guess what, there were lots of sexually active single young women and men in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, etc. It's just that no one talked about it.
Tricia G. March 5, 2012 at 08:06 pm
Maria, your comments on this thread lack any focus or cogency, as they are literally all over the map--ranging from a 1920 anecdote, to Ethiopia, and to harangues against Catholic and other church officials.
If you seek to be persuasive at all, perhaps you should take a debate course. You appear totally unable to address the actual points or questions others post, which refute your arguments. Instead, since there is no logical refutation of my point (or those of other common sense conservatives) you evade, ignore the questions, or pivot to totally unrelated rants against men and other groups. Finally, your self-righteous claims of being "a person of conscience" and thus superior to the rest of us are highly revealing about your prideful, disdainful view of those who disagree with you politically. Your smugness and holier-than-thou attitude ill become you. You might do better to spend a little less time 'preaching' to others on Patch, and heed your own advice earlier, in which you posted: ..."listen more and talk less." Beside steeping yourself in huffpo, "media matters" and "think progress," it might be more helpful if you would spend some time each day reading the Bible. One of my favorite chapters is Isaiah 5, which in verse 21 reads: "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"
Ed Costello March 5, 2012 at 08:33 pm
As I am not involved in any organized religion and wouldn't know much about the advantages of reading the bible, I would say I agree with all your other comments in the last post. I think they are spot on and very well said Tricia!!! I bet you don't get the last word though!!!
Bobby Sands March 5, 2012 at 10:34 pm
For Tricia, you would be well to heed the words of someone far wiser than you.
In an earlier time, St. Augustine captured the sense of what is required in civil discourse: "Let us, on both sides, lay aside all arrogance. Let us not, on either side, claim that we have already discovered the truth. Let us seek it together as something which is known to neither of us. For then only may we seek it, lovingly and tranquilly, if there be no bold presumption that it is already discovered and possessed." Try it on for size.
Bobby Sands March 5, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Trica G. tells one poster to stop preaching and a few lines later, preaches to that very same poster. This reveals exactly the mindset she purports to criticize. Her views are lost in the wake of her own vehemence. Clearly, Tricia's displays a do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do view of the world. And by rough count, the number of her posts is running at the high end of anyone on this regional board. Try a trip through her vitriol amigos. And she heaps abuse on one poster who happens to offer her identity up front. Each of this attacks is bested by something the next day around. This woman/person is just awful. Even if she was saying something that she didn't define as common-sense (that's in the eye of the beholder), it's lost in her mission to attack. What a crackpot.
Jim G. March 7, 2012 at 09:18 pm
Don't get personally engaged with the discussion or the participants. State your thoughts and move on; whether any other participant "likes" or "dislikes" your posts is irrelevant.
Maria Giannuzzi March 7, 2012 at 09:23 pm
Apparently, a couple people commenting on this thread are not happy with my views. If you are that offended by what I have to say, then don't read my comments. There, I have solved your problem. Oh, and perhaps you too should take your own advice. Finally, I prefer the New Testament. One can read it, of course, but it's much more Christian to follow its teachings.
Spiff March 7, 2012 at 10:17 pm
I'm with you Tricia but, keep in mind, you ain't never gonna win! Therefore, keep that in mind when you're posting and it'll help to keep your blood pressure at reasonable levels ;)
Tricia G. March 7, 2012 at 11:18 pm
Thanks, Ed. Poor Maria is so steeped in her "progressive" MARXIST ideas/beliefs that she cannot even see the illogic of her arguments! She argues that receiving the "benefit" of legal tax deductions is the same as being "dependent upon" government, as are those receiving food stamps, TANF, welfare, section 8 housing vouchers, etc.
She believes that because she is "a person of conscience" she is therefore superior to those of us who believe in the Law of the Harvest (maybe she has not even heard of that). Anyway, Ed, though "not involved in any organized religion" I'm guessing you have heard the phrase "render unto Caesar..." and the Commandment "Thou shalt not steal," both of which come from the Bible. Maria's implied claim to "following" Christian/"New Testament teachings" is belied by her support of the government "redistributing wealth"! I wonder if her "conscience" will allow her to be appalled/incensed over this "dependent" parasite!!!" "She won $1 million playing the Michigan lottery" last fall, is NOT working, but owns "TWO homes" and is SCAMMING the taxpayers for food stamps still!! She excuses herself for this fraud/theft because “I feel that it’s okay because I mean, I have no income and I have bills to pay.” And when asked if she would keep doing it until the state cuts her off, she admitted “yeah,“ adding things are ”hard.” http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hidden-cameras-show-mich-million-dollar-lottery-winner-still-using-food-stamps/
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Sarah Cappello June 19, 2013 at 08:46 pm
I may have a donor for you if it's not too late?
Sara Cleveland June 19, 2013 at 09:36 pm
It's not too late!!! :)