$49,000 Loss Every Time GM's Volt is Sold

Kaptainsteve December 3, 2012 at 11:51 pm

Atmopshereic Physicist Dr. Fred Singer reacts to media touted Greenland/Antarctic ice study
"There has been no surface warming for about 15 years. This indicates that the ice melt does reflect current temperatures, and other factors must be involved. If ice melt constitutes 30% of the sea level rise as the article suggests, then the 21 st century increase will be at the low end of the range suggested by the IPCC, which is consistent with Fred Singer's suggestions, and far from Jim Hansen's predictions. It is also interesting that news reports, such as in the Washington Post, excitedly reported the polar melt and sea level rise, but failed to provide information on how tiny the rise is. Please see Article # 1 (for a graph), links under Communicating Better to the Public – Exaggerate, or be Vague?, Changing Seas, and http://imbie.org/

wantfrieswiththat December 4, 2012 at 03:42 am

Global warming exists. One can tell by looking around the world and see extreme weather situations, drought ladened cities, dried up river beds, or the barren husks of what was this years midwestern crops. If you want to argue whether this climate change is a natural cycle or caused by man made methods, that is open for discussion. To turn a blind eye at what is happening because some "lib" scientists says its happening is just plain ignorant.
With that said....how the heck does this relate to the Volt? The US government has always subsidized new ventures. The Volt, if given the proper backing and support, should thrive in an era where fossil fuel usage need to be replaced. Once technology cathes up and the Volt becomes cheaper to purchase and maintain, sales will take off. If I studied correctly, didnt the US government help some small unknown oil companies by subsidizing oil production since the technology was not yet available. Those subsidies exist today even though the technology is available for " squeezing blood out of a turnip". Go volt....Lets do our best as a society to not be dependent on foreign oil and help preserve the earths natural fossil fuels.

Bill December 4, 2012 at 01:35 pm

Co2 levels are up 40%! Sounds alarming, until you realize that means co2 has increased from .0004% of the atmosphere, to .00056% of the atmosphere. It seems that the only thing the alarmists can point too is a possible correlation, possible mind you, and its a huge leap from correlation to causation. Especially considering, as has been pointed out, that according to paleoclimatologists, co2 increases have always followed warming oceans, not preceded, which means that co2 doesn't cause global warming.
And the term global warming was changed to global climate change so that the faithful could still claim the need to control economies and societies should the planet start to cool again, as global cooling apparently is just as dangerous as global warming. Hawkeye, you have an interesting defense for the mistaken belief that we can control the environment. You defend your belief that we can control the environment by pointing out that we are causing global warming, you defend your belief in global warming by saying we can control the environment. I believe that's called a circular argument, especially considering both statements are highly suspect and obviously open for debate.

Bill December 4, 2012 at 06:17 pm

Its not cars that are the problem! Apparently we need to ban kerosene lamps, not 100 watt lightbulbs, i know cause science tells me so! Read the following news flash so that we can go after the real culprits!
One kilogram of black carbon, a byproduct of incomplete combustion that absorbs light and heats the atmosphere, produces as much warming in a month as 700 kilograms of carbon dioxide does in a century, the study said. "Kerosene wick lamps are among the most polluting devices on earth,” Tami Bond, associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of Illinois, said in an interview. “The very thing that makes their flame so bright – the black carbon generated by burning kerosene – is also a pollutant.” http://www.courant.com/la-sci-sn-kerosene-wick-lamps-produce-both-light-and-hazardous-soot-20121130,0,2603568.story

Bill December 4, 2012 at 10:22 pm

Hawk eye, dude, lighten up, your being made fun of and taking it far to seriously, don't give yourself a TIA. But it was a scientist who said one kilo of carbon a month was worse than 700 kilos of co2 over 100 years. Ignore the facts at your own, and the worlds peril! I for one went home today and immediately replaced all my antique kerosene lamps with modern 100 watt incandescent light bulbs.

Bill December 4, 2012 at 10:24 pm

Ok, it's oval, still pretty circular though, definitely not square.

Kaptainsteve December 4, 2012 at 11:33 pm

@Hawk; " I never said we can't talk about the sun because it's astrophysics. We can, and even with it, anthropogenic causes are in evidence. I said that Fulks' expertise and research is not in the area of the sun's role in climate change, so his is merely interpretation and opinion. Which is not the same as having science to back it up. If Fulks has done research that has data in opposition to the consensus model, great. But he doesn't. He has his interpretation and opinion."
Translation; You can't talk about the sun because Hawk says Fulks ain't no good. Why? No real reason, just because. In other words, let's not examine what he says, let's just discredit it right off the bat and then we don't have to discuss it. The guy's a documented expert in the field of astrophysics and planets, but that is not good enough for Hawk to even consider his "opinions" on the sun's role in "global warming." And, we all know that "opinions" have no place in this discussion. Opinions are whatever Hawk or Al Gore claim they are, and anything they cite is science. How convenient. How absurd. What nonsense. Let's face the truth, Phil Jone's "hockey stick" is the image that launched global warming. Phil Jones fudged the data to make it's most significant feature, the bend up, yet, this is not allowed to be talked about by Hawk because there are other factors, blah, blah, blah.... Hawk, your science is not even opinion, it's confirmation bias, nothing more and nothing less.

Kaptainsteve December 4, 2012 at 11:42 pm

@Hawk,
Whether or not the sea levels rose or fell, or the temperatures rose or fell don't mean a darn thing unless you link it to mans doings. That's a big link, because these things have been happening for BILLIONS of years before man was walking on two legs. And, as you say, to say it's mans fault is really nothing more than an opinion and until it can be unequivocally be proven to be CAUSAL, and until then it is just something people like you wish to be true because it's a way for you to exert your political central planning ambitions on others. The real agenda here is not science, it's political. What percent of these global warming cultists do you think pull the democratic lever with visions of Marxism dancing in their heads? I'll bet almost every single one of them. Is this an opinion or a fact? Who cares, but we all know the honest truth don't we?

Kaptainsteve December 4, 2012 at 11:56 pm

@Hawk;
Who should decide? Who should decide whether the Model T is good or bad? Who should decide whether the Volt is good or bad? Like I said, your argument is really political in nature. You want to make these choices for people don't you but why can't the market decide? Why can't INDIVIDUALS with their own free will decide? When you scream "Bah Progress!" YOu are really saying the people are too dumb to decide for themselves so of course, people like you are needed to decide for them. Am I right? Be honest. Who's to say whether "diesel-electric" is best or not except the person who chooses to produce or buy it? Maybe natural gas is an even better alternative (and probably is). Who should decide what is best for the "great magnitude," the individual of free will should. Of course these are my "opinions." But the bottom line is that this global warming garbage is just a scheme to concentrate power away from the individuals, and to those who "know better." The "know betters" are always the political class and experts in the universities. (just like Atlas Shrugged) If you love "diesel-electrics" than why not buy one or why not invest in the production of them? If they're such a great idea then your efforts will truly be rewarded. But, until then, what you really advocate is simply the concentration of power and authority using global warming as a indirect device to pull off the coup de tat.

Bill December 5, 2012 at 12:59 am

Look in the mirror, its not settled science. You know, prior to about 1930 or 40, virtually all scientists thought gravity was an attractive force between 2 objects in space, turns out they were all wrong, funny that science thing.

Andrew Ziemba December 5, 2012 at 01:48 am

The biggest settled science that liberals refuse to admit is that the world temperature fluctuates over time. It always has and we hope not to change it's natural balance. These are the facts that we should all be able to acknowledge. That being said, any intelligent scientist will admit that scientists, let alone the WORLD know NOTHING. Again, this we should ALL be able to acknowledge. Many scientists do acknowledge it, but they are the ones that are not on government handouts.

Tin Foil Hat December 5, 2012 at 04:21 am

Money isn't required for intellectually honest science. Openness is required. Access to the data and algorithm is required. Proper peer review is required. Disclosure of financial interest (the esteemed Joseph Biederman for example) is required.
Climate "science" falls woefully short in all these criteria. Separately, what they do is run simulations - simulations based on assumptions and parametrised proxy data. When their simulations fail to predict the past, they adjust the data. When their simulations don't predict the future, they employ "tricks" to hide the decline. Feynman, were he alive today, would have eviscerated these charlatans they are. Follow the money. If man isn't the cause then there's no lever to deprive you of your money and freedom Always follow the money.

Andrew Ziemba December 5, 2012 at 04:43 am

The truth will win eventually but sometimes it is painful to bear until it is delivered. You want a political answer. The answer is very, very simple. Lew Rockwell, the genius that he is, has always had a simple approach to what government says. He says basically, do the opposite of what the government says. This is applicable the vast majority of the time. What matters most is public perception, NOT reality.
Democrats as a party are more likely to support the belief that democrats spew to their supporters. This is not because it is true, but rather because it furthers their agenda. Republicans are more likely to support their beliefs for the same reason. This shouldn't be surprising at all. The vast majority of Americans have the whole issue wrong, because the vast majority of Americans are zombies to what the mainstream media tells them. As far as what I said about knowing nothing? Well yes, I believe that we have no idea how the world works and we are extremely foolish to think that we know enough to say half of the things we do. We know a little bit about one planet in one solar system, which we know nearly nothing about. We know even less about outside of our solar system! Some day you will cringe at how close minded you were because you fell for the lies that the new world order has told you through their controlled media. I don't blame you, and wish you all the best.

Andrew Ziemba December 5, 2012 at 04:58 am

The most shocking of all claims I will make is as follows though. You may just want to shut your eyes because so much truth may be too much to handle. Nearly every single mainstream study ever performed, particularly in the last 50 years, has been 100% dedicated to furthering an agenda or selling a good or service to people. Studies are no longer about bringing observational fact to attention, but instead are performed for the lone purpose of deceiving people to believe a certain thing.
Look no further than anything released from the FDA (HAHAHA WOW) or basically any other government organization. Seriously, you name it. Anyone who thinks otherwise either has something to gain, or is an absolute mainstream media zombie. Also, as it was pointed out very clearly and very simply above, perhaps we should just get the answer straight from you, Hawkeye, from where does the greatest emission of Co2 come from? Lastly, why is it that the face of global warming, Al Gore, lives in a massive mansion, flies private jets everywhere, and refuses to debate anyone? His only card in the deck is the joker card. I wonder why you have to have such a lopsided, close minded opinion on politics. Why can't you embrace freedom? Do not be part of the problem. Be part of the solution. Lewrockwell.com

Andrew Ziemba December 5, 2012 at 05:56 am

I hope you look him up. He is a great American patriot who is one of many who is currently working to bring people together rather than divide them like the NWO manufactured crisis of climate change, which continues to force people to waste time arguing about the things that they want to be argued about rather than joining forces to topple the elite who control the NWO.

Bill December 5, 2012 at 03:11 pm

Hawk eye, maybe if you give up having the "last word" they'll let the thread die?

REVMAN December 5, 2012 at 03:13 pm

The carbon foot print --There are 6 billion(all have batteries) cell phones in the world and the USA is 3rd,what about laptops,ipods,flashlights,remotes,radios,clocks,watches all have batteries and I KNOW EVERYONE reclcles(in the garbage) them!!

Tin Foil Hat December 5, 2012 at 06:18 pm

Elevated temperature is not a proxy for infection. It is an established response. Tested, testable, and falsifiable.
No. You are, in fact, wrong. The middle age warming data was massaged and then mysteriously eliminated. Look at Mann's plots. There's no sign of it. I wonder where it has gone...? Climate "science" is not peer reviewed in the proper sense. It is internally reviewed within its cohort that depends on continued government funding. The algorithms and data are not open to full inspection. Entire swaths of raw have mysteriously vanished - this is no theory. I'm sorry, but you seem as if you've had any proper scientific training. The money leads to where it always does. Do you not know?

Kaptainsteve December 5, 2012 at 10:54 pm

@Hawkeye
Hawkeye, I challenge you to explain why... Even though the temperature hasn't gone up (according to U.E.A.) it still has gone up? (Atmopshereic Physicist Dr. Fred Singer reacts to media touted Greenland/Antarctic ice study http://imbie.org/ & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html) What everyone else says is always just an opinion and therefore doesn't matter, but every dribble of spit out of your mouth is scientific fact not to be disputed by anyone else. You did NOT vote for Obama. You do NOT believe in spreading the wealth around and the converse, taking wealth from those who don't deserve it like the richest 1%, corporations and those who use too much carbon. You are not a pinko Marxist sympathizer who would use any ruse to implement socialism. Finally, that you do not believe in forcing your "solutions" to the "global warming crisis" on others via; force, government, taxation, and taking from others what is not yours to take to do good things for the earth. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I don't expect any answer(s). These are really rhetorical questions. You and I and anyone who's followed this thread know the answers already. It was just an excuse for me to rant about the true hidden agenda, the elephant in the global warming room of deceit and bamboozle. A room full of collectivists and phony scam-science.

wantfrieswiththat December 5, 2012 at 10:56 pm

Going back to the original paragraph of this story, it actually is incorrect. The first GM bailout was engineered by GWB in late 2007 or early 2008. He admits now that he would do it again if given the chance.
Now, i still hear the sounds of sticks and a dead horse....let it go....It is obvious that to some folks, it is imperative that the fiscal debt is solved so that our children's children will have future but the heck with the fact that they have no future if there is no viable source of energy besides fossil fuel because that is a finite supply.

Bill December 6, 2012 at 12:00 am

Of course, excepting going to war and lowering tax's, Bush was a liberal.

wantfrieswiththat December 6, 2012 at 12:42 am

GWB...a liberal? Well, he did sign into law the light bulb remodification act....which I cannot explain why people blame Obama for this.

Dennis & Catherine Cicero December 6, 2012 at 01:57 am

We should invent one that is fueled by political wind bags. There is a never ending source.

Kaptainsteve December 6, 2012 at 11:44 pm

Flashback 2011: A PNAS peer-reviewed admission that 'global surface temperatures did not rise between 1998 and 2008'
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17974/Flashback-2011-A-PNAS-peerreviewed-admission-that-global-surface-temperatures-did-not-rise-between-1998-and-2008 Prof. Judith Curry on 16 year global temps: ' Nothing in Met Office's statement...effectively refutes [UK Daily Mail] Rose's argument that there has been no increase in global avg. surface temps for past 16 years' http://www.climatedepot.com/a/18047/Prof-Judith-Curry-on-16-year-global-temps--Nothing-in-Met-Offices-statementeffectively-refutes-Roses-argument-that-there-has-been-no-increase-in-global-avg-surface-temps-for-past-16-years Lüning/Vahrenholt On HadCRUT's 16 Years Of No Warming: 'Tough Times Ahead For Climate Science' -- 'It turns out that everything that had been suspected was confirmed' http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17996/LuumlningVahrenholt-On-HadCRUTs-16-Years-Of-No-Warming-Tough-Times-Ahead-For-Climate-Science---It-turns-out-that-everything-that-had-been-suspected-was-confirmed Analysis on 16 year 'pause' in global wamring: 'Regarding the significance of the period from 1997, recall that Dr. Ben Santer claimed 17 years was the period needed' http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17951/Analysis-on-16-year-pause-in-global-wamring-Regarding-the-significance-of-the-period-from-1997-recall-that-Dr-Ben-Santer-claimed-17-years-was-the-period-needed

Kaptainsteve December 6, 2012 at 11:45 pm

New Phil Jones quote: 'We don't know what natural variability is doing' -- 'We don't fully understand how to input things like changes in the oceans' -- '...and because we don't fully understand it you could say that natural variability is now working to suppress the warming. We don't know what natural variability is doing..'
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17977/New-Phil-Jones-quote-We-dont-know-what-natural-variability-is-doing--We-dont-fully-understand-how-to-input-things-like-changes-in-the-oceans Climategate's Phil Jones 'insisted that 15 or 16 years is not a significant period: pauses of such length had always been expected, he said' in 2012 -- 'Yet in 2009, when the [temperature] plateau was already becoming apparent and being discussed by scientists, Jones told a colleague in one of the Climategate emails: 'Bottom line: the 'no upward trend' has to continue for a total of 15 years before we get worried.' -- 'In other words, though 5 years ago he seemed to be saying that 15 years without warming would make him 'worried', that period has now become 20 years' http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17976/Climategates-Phil-Jones-insisted-that-15-or-16-years-is-not-a-significant-period-pauses-of-such-length-had-always-been-expected-he-said-in-2012

Kaptainsteve December 6, 2012 at 11:47 pm

UK Daily Mail: 'Claim that there has been any statistically significant warming for past 16 years is therefore unsustainable' -- Reaffirms 'a 16-year 'pause' in rising temps' -- 'Two new separate peer-reviewed studies, published in prestigious academic journals last week [challenged 'Hockey Stick'] -- 'The level of warmth during the peak of the MWP in the second half of the 10th Century, equalled or slightly exceeded the mid-20th Century warming.' There was also a pronounced warming period in Roman times'
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/18089/UK-Daily-Mail-Claim-that-there-has-been-any-statistically-significant-warming-for-past-16-years-is-therefore-unsustainable--Reaffirms-a-16year-pause-in-rising-temps Prof. Curry: 'I think Rose's 2nd article is well done. He lays out arguments the other 'side' is making, & provides his response. It is a reasonable portrayal of debate surrounding this issue' -- Judith Curry: 'The trend since 1997 is very small, much smaller than the decadal trend of 0.2C that we have been led to expect by the IPCC for the early part of the 21st century...' http://www.climatedepot.com/a/18088/Prof-Curry-I-think-Roses-2nd-article-is-well-done--He-lays-out-arguments-the-other-side-is-making--provides-his-response--It-is-a-reasonable-portrayal-of-debate-surrounding-this-issue

Kaptainsteve December 6, 2012 at 11:47 pm

Flashback 2010: Oh My! 2010 tied for 'hottest' year?! Relax, it is 'purely a political statement' -- Even NASA's Hansen admits it is 'not particularly important' -- Prof. mocks 'hottest decade' claim as 'a joke' -- 'Claims based on year-to-year temperature data that differs by only a few HUNDREDTHS of a degree'
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/9435/Oh-My-2010-tied-for-hottest-year-Relax-it-is-purely-a-political-statement--Even-NASAs-Hansen-admits-it-is-not-particularly-important--Prof-mocks-hottest-decade-claim-as-a-joke

Kaptainsteve December 6, 2012 at 11:52 pm

and finally, before you attack Climate Depot, here is CREATOR OF THE HOCKEY STICK GRAPH HIMSELF GIVING CREDIT TO CLIMATE DEPOT'S MORANO!
"'Hockey Stick' Prof. Michael Mann on Climate Depot: Mann says: 'Morano has really accomplished a lot' -- 'According to Mann, Morano has changed the entire rhetoric of the 'deniers' Read the Full Article " http://www.climatedepot.com/a/18583/Hockey-Stick-Prof-Michael-Mann-on-Climate-Depot-Mann-says-Morano-has-really-accomplished-a-lot--According-to-Mann-Morano-has-changed-the-entire-rhetoric-of-the-deniers

Kaptainsteve December 6, 2012 at 11:58 pm

The "hockey stick had been debunked thoroughly by Steven McIntyre and Hans von Storch, who labelled the hockey stick chart “nonsense”, and that Andrew Montford wrote an entire book about the fraud: The Hockey Stick Illusion. They also failed to mention that the National Academy of Sciences had also called Mann’s methodology “flawed”."
http://notrickszone.com/2012/11/23/german-die-zeits-twisted-perception-doubt-being-fanned-worldwide-by-climate-godfather-marc-morano/ But sure, the "National of Academy of Sciences" is not credible and just an opinion, right Hawk???

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